tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post8226639991007793575..comments2023-08-15T22:02:59.649-05:00Comments on Sunshine State Sarah: The Truth About the Booing at the DebateAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11251723007613713377noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-19385723898546775522012-02-04T16:11:34.872-06:002012-02-04T16:11:34.872-06:00@ Anonymous Sep 23, 2011 11:22 AM
Just found this...@ Anonymous Sep 23, 2011 11:22 AM<br /><br />Just found this link while doing research and your comment begs for a response. <br /><br />Do you live in a dark room by yourself? Do you not work with others in an office that's not staffed by robots? You obviously don't know anyone in the military either. It's not 24/7 out in the field like the commercials they use for recruiting. People in the military are human beings and often times have to work in offices or in hangars or different places just like in the civilian world. That means sometimes people ask each other "What are you doing this weekend?" or "What are you doing tonight?". Many people on the Right and the Left think it's ok to lack knowledge of the world they live in but still have their opinion count. You have the right to free speech but you're an incompetent person. Your know-nothing blanket view of gays won't get you into heaven.Ex-Leftisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862424752209076168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-80032824804165221702011-09-25T02:38:46.303-05:002011-09-25T02:38:46.303-05:00@JoAnna:
1) He quite obviously did follow DADT as...@JoAnna:<br /><br />1) He quite obviously did follow DADT as evidenced by the fact that he was gay and in the military before it was repealed. It just so happens DADT requires lying by omission. Hint: that's the DT part.<br /><br />2) Since you are so hung up on his exact words, I suggest you watch the clip again. Do you think someone saying "I had to lie about who I was because I'm a gay soldier and I didn't want to lose my job" is boo-worthy? Hint: No.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-21882091342977832832011-09-24T22:01:02.804-05:002011-09-24T22:01:02.804-05:00Aaaand Joann avoided all the tough questions and m...Aaaand Joann avoided all the tough questions and managed again to defend the indefensible: booing an American solider serving in Iraq. What a surprise. As I pointed out (and you ignored), up until DADT was repealed, it was impossible to be gay and serve without lying. People rarely ask other people flat-out if they're gay or straight but there are hundreds of day to day causal questions that do. So according to your logic, all gay soliders should be booed. <br /> I'll try again. What "personal agenda" did you think this gay solider tried to advance (other than risking his life to keep you and me safe, that is). <br />And do you feel that a solider mentioning his wife in casual conversation merits dismissal? And if not, why should a solider mentioning his husband in casual conversation merit dismissal? <br />And in response to your 1. above, the solider in question did follow DADT and did not come out until it was repealed, despite the fact that he naturally and unavoidably had to lie to do so. So I'll ask again, where do you get off advocating booing this man who has risked his life to keep you and your children safe?RTRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16687026821339849940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-35521950314123103212011-09-24T20:40:36.703-05:002011-09-24T20:40:36.703-05:00Busy day with the kids, but quickly -
1. Whether ...Busy day with the kids, but quickly -<br /><br />1. Whether or not DADA was just, unjust, right, wrong, etc. is irrelevant. At the time the solider in question joined the service, DADA was a part of military regs that he was obligated to follow as part of his service. If he thought he could not follow those regs, then he shouldn't have joined. Soldiers don't have the luxury of choosing which regs to follow and which to dismiss.<br /><br />2. Sure, it's entirely possible that the soldier meant he had to "live a lie" but for some unfathomable reason chose to phrase it as "I had to lie" instead. If that is the case, it was incredibly poor phrasing on his part and incredibly poor judgment on whoever vetted the question. At first listen, without the benefit of Monday morning quarterbacking, you hear a solider say, "I lied to keep my job." I think that's boo-worthy.<br /><br />3. Audie Miller - great man. Still, his incredible record and astounding courage doesn't negate his lying to enter the service. The U.S. didn't want to send kids to battle, hence the age restriction. <br /><br />4. Lucy - only if benefits and etc. are conditional upon proof of no sexual contact, which has never been the case. <br /><br />Regarding "Santorum and the other candidates are EVIL because they didn't immediately condemn the booing!", Sarah's follow-up post indicates that Santorum et al didn't HEAR the booing in the first place. So, unless we expect the GOP candidates to have magical powers of which we were heretofore unaware...JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-4887771587399173592011-09-24T18:55:43.788-05:002011-09-24T18:55:43.788-05:00JoAnna, under your standards, the military should ...JoAnna, under your standards, the military should not provide benefits of any kind for legal spouses or biological children, particularly the biological children, because the mere presence of these reveals the service member's sexual activities, which you say have no place in the military.Lucy Gillamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05963235279513527221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-55836187757079526572011-09-24T13:51:03.087-05:002011-09-24T13:51:03.087-05:00Silence in the face of bigotry and discrimination ...Silence in the face of bigotry and discrimination is acceptance of the behavior. The fact that not one of the candidates had the courage to defend a man that is offering up his life for the safety of our country, the very crowd booing him, and the people standing in silence on the stage speaks volumes about who they are as self proclaimed Christians ready to represent all of the citizens in this country with the commitment to equality that our Declaration of Independence and constitution advocates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-51464294744418637932011-09-24T12:57:56.643-05:002011-09-24T12:57:56.643-05:00Sarah -- I just wanted you to be aware that the ne...Sarah -- I just wanted you to be aware that the news aggregate site Fark.com has picked up your story: http://www.fark.com/comments/6589516/Last-nights-crowd-at-GOP-debate-did-not-boo-that-gay-soldier-it-was-one-guy-whose-boos-were-amplified-by-concrete-floor-with-picture-evidence<br /><br />5094 clicks since last night!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-82286233785258368812011-09-24T12:36:05.978-05:002011-09-24T12:36:05.978-05:00If you, or any of the candidates seriously wanted ...If you, or any of the candidates seriously wanted to defend the reputation of the GOP, why were the boo-ers not immediately condemned? Why didn't a single candidate take the opportunity to call out those that booed and tell them exactly how inappropriate they were? <br />Indifference is the same as permitting and accepting that behavior.<br /><br />That said, the answer to the question was short sighted and ridiculous. Protecting rights is not special treatment. Soldiers have never had to hide their heterosexuality, so saying that the repeal of DADT suddenly brings sex into the military is just dumb. The change is simply that those soldiers that are homosexual no longer have to live in fear of being found out, and thus discharged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-73846571028748173762011-09-24T11:33:37.938-05:002011-09-24T11:33:37.938-05:00@JoAnna - "See, I thought the booing was beca...@JoAnna - "See, I thought the booing was because the solider openly admitted that he lied in order to join the military. I don't know about you, but I don't want soldiers or officers in the military that have absolutely no compunctions about lying in order to advance a personal agenda."<br /><br /><br />Does that go for Audie Murphy too?<br /><br />America's most decorated soldier ever and recipient of the Medal of Honor, who served in World War II by forging his birth certificate and lying about his age?<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_MurphyBradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-37118689551286432152011-09-24T11:07:08.818-05:002011-09-24T11:07:08.818-05:00The concrete floor creating unusual acoustics, eh?...The concrete floor creating unusual acoustics, eh? Well then, let's go back a few years and look at the right's reaction to Howard Dean's victory scream.Angie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082772861792356008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-58175865408799244522011-09-24T10:57:13.328-05:002011-09-24T10:57:13.328-05:00Homosexual's in the military is bad.. mmmkay. ...Homosexual's in the military is bad.. mmmkay. <br /><br />Now I'm not to blame.. South Park is.<br /><br />That's how this works.. right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-6501862628212952852011-09-24T10:56:57.693-05:002011-09-24T10:56:57.693-05:00As a progressive and an Israeli-American, I served...As a progressive and an Israeli-American, I served in the IDF; we had gay soldiers and it wasn't a problem. <br /><br />Of course, Israel is way less uptight and rightwing than USA. Also, I find it very, very disturbing that the rightwing in USA has no problem with booing anyone, no matter what their military status or sexual orientation. That is what leads to things like the Holocaust.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-70983462578003941102011-09-24T10:56:12.639-05:002011-09-24T10:56:12.639-05:00As a progressive and an Israeli-American, I served...As a progressive and an Israeli-American, I served in the IDF; we had gay soldiers and it wasn't a problem. <br /><br />Of course, Israel is way less uptight and rightwing than USA. Also, I find it very, very disturbing that the rightwing in USA has no problem with booing anyone, no matter what their military status or sexual orientation. That is what leads to things like the Holocaust.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-17085459390164637672011-09-24T10:29:04.838-05:002011-09-24T10:29:04.838-05:00They are very echoey, you know. It's science.They are very echoey, you know. It's science.manderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14825819771373993710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-12629242108976040932011-09-24T10:23:40.198-05:002011-09-24T10:23:40.198-05:00Just a couple of bad apples! That's the ticke...Just a couple of bad apples! That's the ticket! Were these same one or two guys who were booing an active duty soldier the same bad apples calling for letting folks die in the streets? Were they the ones applauding the death penalty? I bet these same screwballs are the guys that show up at every conservative rally and say something stupid or racist! Whew, what a relief to know it's just a few bad apples.Charles Moorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-22044947738493057532011-09-24T09:46:26.821-05:002011-09-24T09:46:26.821-05:00yeah was it...it was the concrete floor...thats th...yeah was it...it was the concrete floor...thats the straw to grabAndynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-32616618969678142632011-09-24T09:11:16.058-05:002011-09-24T09:11:16.058-05:00@JoAnna I just read your profile. You're a co...@JoAnna I just read your profile. You're a content editor. Explains a great deal. My reply is below, after the MWs.<br /><br />re: Mr. Wonderful - you contradict yourself. <br /><br />"To 'lie' about who one's true nature is not the same thing as lying about something."<br /><br />Actually...yes it is. To lie about his "true nature" implies that he was asked about it in the first place. <br /><br />MW: When I said "lie about his true nature" what I meant was that he wouldn't be free to discuss his private life with other soldiers (i.e. boyfriend). Sometimes in cases such as this someone will ask "Do you have a girlfriend?" and some choose to say "Ya I do. Her name is Jennifer." It's a lie of convenience. Or they might say "Are you married?" He very well could be married, as gay marriage is legal in several states. If he were married to a man he most likely would say "No, I'm not." <br /><br />Not being permitted to openly discuss and flaunt one's sexual proclivities does not equate to having to lie about them to keep your job. <br /><br />MW: Here's where you show your true colors. Life in the military is about trying to stay alive. The very fact that you assume that gay men join the military to "flaunt" their "sexual proclivities" is not only ridiculous it's downright laughable. Gay men join the military for the same reasons that straight men do: love of country; education; world travel, etc. They don't join so they can have sex with straight men or (as Rick Santorum would have you believe) stare at them in the showers. You think we need to go to Iraq to do that? We can do that at home. We don't need to join the military to do that!<br /><br />Understand? If he HAD TO LIE to keep his job, as he stated, it follows that it was because someone else broke the law and ASKED.<br /><br />MW: That's the thing about DADT. If you don't ask...I won't tell. That's fine on paper but in Iraq, where bombs are exploding and people are being killed, life is different. Soldiers aren't stupid. Oftentimes they know that a guy they stationed with is gay but they won't ask out of respect. It's not about DADT. This is the real world JoAnna. As I mentioned above, I read your bio and I know that you're a very happy Catholic now, with three kids and one on the way. It's easy for you to sit in the safety of your office, typing away at your keyboard in your quaintly decorate house, but life is very different for this gay soldier and the men that he's stationed with. It's not about what he said or didn't say, nor is it about who asked what of whom when. It's about staying alive and getting to know the men that you might see get blown up right in front of you. It's all a moot point now. DADT is dead and hopefully now the bigoted booing can stop.Mr. Wonderfulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15430451159753611469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-17787159558102527512011-09-24T02:43:39.103-05:002011-09-24T02:43:39.103-05:00Totalitarianism begins with dehumanizing, aided an...Totalitarianism begins with dehumanizing, aided and abetted by cowardice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-80429996865675130422011-09-24T00:08:34.010-05:002011-09-24T00:08:34.010-05:00I couldn't care less about the idiot doing the...I couldn't care less about the idiot doing the booing or even the crowd's reactions. Some of those onstage claimed to have heard it (not Santorum), and I was apalled that NO ONE who wants to lead said shut up to the guy.<br /><br />None of them showed they were leaders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-47319261012548330002011-09-23T23:50:08.840-05:002011-09-23T23:50:08.840-05:00Uh....the problem wasn't that a bunch of you p...Uh....the problem wasn't that a bunch of you people were booing.<br /><br />The PROBLEM was that all the candidates up there were apparently JUST FINE WITH IT. Not one of them told you people to stop booing. Not one of them thanked that soldier for his service. NOT ONE of them stood up for his courage.<br /><br />You can make all the excuses you want, throw around all the technical acoustic jargon you want (which is bullplop - concrete won't echo with thousands of people SITTING ON IT DUH!!!!!) but you can't change the fact that NOT ONE of your candidates told you people to stop booing.Wadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03579689980092895055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-91141719626212147452011-09-23T23:48:17.430-05:002011-09-23T23:48:17.430-05:00Johanna, all closeted gay people have to lie, all ...Johanna, all closeted gay people have to lie, all day, every day. For example. Say this solider went to a fancy dinner with his boyfriend over the weekend. On Monday, another solider says, "what did you do this weekend?" The gay solider must either lie or refuse to answer the question, which would make him look like a lunatic. Or say he saw a gay themed movie or read a gay themed book, and someone asked him what's the last movie he saw. Or what celebrity he has a crush on. People "ask" you your sexual orientation all day, every day in casual conversation, that is never a point-blank "are you gay?" You just don't notice it because you're straight. <br /><br />You seem to be deliberately conflating gay sex acts with merely existing as a gay person. And you keep saying the solider lied to advance a "personal agenda", without ever defining what that agenda supposedly was. <br />Then someone asked, "Can heterosexual soldiers talk about girlfriends and wives?"<br /><br />And you responded, "If anyone is openly discussing their sexual activities, regardless with whom they engage in those activities, that's just damn creepy."<br /><br />But that wasn't the question. Is saying "I went to the movies with my wife last night" damn creepy? Should the solider making that statement be discharged from service? <br />Why is it that homophobes think a man discussing his wife is just having a conversation but a man discussing his husband is "flaunt(ing) one's sexual proclivities"?Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-8755869766344111242011-09-23T23:36:49.833-05:002011-09-23T23:36:49.833-05:00This has got to be the most ridiculous explanation...This has got to be the most ridiculous explanation I have ever heard. That horsesh*t may fly with the FOX News faithful, but the rest of America is not buying it. Concrete floors. Ha! I can't believe you even posted a picture. Unbelievable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-7821356822168730522011-09-23T23:14:30.135-05:002011-09-23T23:14:30.135-05:00@JoAnna: What an amazing display of mental gymnast...@JoAnna: What an amazing display of mental gymnastics. Really. Bravo.<br /><br />If a group of soldiers are talking about their girlfriends back home and one asked this soldier if he has one, he would have to say no under DADT. This is a lie by omission which you so kindly posted the definition for above. If this outlandish scenario ever happened to this soldier, he is justified in saying "I had to lie to keep my job."<br /><br />There are thousands of other similar questions (many of them non sexual) that could reveal someone's sexuality. "Why are you always singing showtunes in the shower?"<br /><br />Therefore, if the booers booed for this reason you suggest, they are even bigger idiots than if they just booed because they are moronic bigots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-23623860654694263552011-09-23T22:51:10.281-05:002011-09-23T22:51:10.281-05:00I hate how someone who doesn't see your exact,...I hate how someone who doesn't see your exact, exact, point of view is a "liberal". How pathetically childish is that? Grow up and get a backbone. People are going to disagree with us so you're going to need to back up what you say with facts and not names kiddo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1169420095530503988.post-89768653961429789252011-09-23T22:43:46.210-05:002011-09-23T22:43:46.210-05:00@Johanna, while he did say "I had to lie"...@Johanna, while he did say "I had to lie" it is clear from the context that he was speaking figuratively and not literally. The fact that you keep saying "here is the literal words" in response to others pointing out that circumstances indicate that he was speaking figuratively is either extremely unsophisticated or in bad faith--evaluating whether a sentence or two is meant literally or figuratively necessarily entails looking at the context in which it was said. Assuming he was speaking in a figuratively is the only reasonable conclusion because:<br /><br />1- Under most circumstances asking someone directly if he was gay would violate DADT, and any evidence obtained in response would be inadmissible. Ergo, he would not have to lie in order to keep his job.<br />2- Under the circumstances in which the military could launch an official investigation, lying would be a serious offence, equivalent to perjury or obstruction of justice. Repeal of DADT would not absolve him of that, so he would have no expectation of continuing to serve.<br />3- Even if you aren't convinced by these points, do you honestly believe that there was no vetting by the moderator. Why would they use what is actually a highly fact-specific and unusual situation to present a straightforward policy question?<br /><br />At best, you taking an arguably ambiguous statement and then making a lot of bizarre assumption to conclude that the question is asking something that no one else thinks it is asking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com